Changes in Co8 6.0.2

>>all the items in the upper shelf of the temple of cuthbert in homlett are way to valuable for lower lvl parties (of course keeping one Heal scroll or potion for Bing is needed)

This is in the original PnP module, page 18:
Area 20. Church of St. Cuthbert
Upper Floor
C 11. Church Library

...Hidden in a thick book entitled Legal
Affairs in Veluna, 213 to 312 CY is a scroll of
seven clerical spells (one spell of each level)
and an amulet of life protection.

There's no amulet, but the scrolls have been there a looong time.

 

not debating rather it is there in the module or the original TOEE vanilla version, just think for a first lvl party to walk in and take it, without even having to sneak by Terjon (and or kill him). Seems it should be more like Jaroo's chest, where you have to be willing to take the possible plunge of the fight with Jaroo for opening his chest, not just walk up the stairs and grap it.
On that note maybe if you go to Terjon about Bing..then he gives you the quest for his amulet in emiridy medows..then as your reward he tells you go to my bookshelf and you will find the items to help Bing or something along that lines.
I mean I can sell the raise dead scrolls for over 3000gp each thats 6000-8000gp in goodies and I have never left homlet to the moat house or welkwood bog.
I am all for keeping them there just don't think they should be a walk by and grab like I am taking the latest flyer for the church pancake breakfast during needfest.
On that note wouldn't mind seeing things like the snakes tresure or the gem that can be found in the gullet of one of the frogs as per the module implemented as they are there as well in the original module, and at least I had to fight for them.

Shapecharge

 

Sure, you can metagame and head straight for the stash- but as mentioned above, a major tenet of the Co8 is keeping as close to the source material as practicable. Every "well, it could be done like this" takes us away from that goal to an entirely new module/ game.

 

Sps49,

I agree and I do tend to ignore them, but keeping with the original module, I do like the fact they are there, but also in the spirt of the game and original module I don't think even in PnP they were meant for the PCs to just take off the shelf, no more then Jaroo's chest was meant for them just to open freely or Gurniogts (sorry sp), tresure he keeps in his private room at the welcome wench means the players can just walk in and grab it either. Those were there if the PCs decided to break-in. Kill Terjon in some mission for the temple if they were evil etc..
When you look at the original module almost every hosehold has some treasure, under a floor board or in a drawer up stairs. But they were there if the PCs decided to go a more evil path of theivery or killing. I don't think they were placed for PCs to just take at their liesure with no consequences for their actions should they get caught. The Trokia TOEE game left out treasure in the houses and the inn of the welcome wench, and if consequences for stealing these can't be implemented well in the game code I thiink it was a good call on thier part. Jaroos chest has consequences if you decide to take it, I just think Terjons stash should too.
Also I agree with what Gaear mentioned on his changes to bring the treasure in the Ghouls room, spider tower and Crayfish back in line with the original module and vanilla content. I was attempting to back him on this, and also counter what General Ghoul had mentioned that why move these back to the original module when already we have things such as master work items that were not the original. My belief is that things like master work items is a needed result of changing a 1st edition module into a 3.5 edition game/module. I was also pointing out that if Gaear wanted to get back into the spirt of the original module that maybe we could look at reimplementing things like the snakes tresure and the gem in the gullet of the frogs. These could also be tweaked from the rules given if any given in the 1st edition module to implement rules for 3.5 such as the search skill to find the items.
I also agree with Gaear that adding more tresure in a tresure laden game might not be good (even if it matches original content). I was just thinking that since I do not believe first level players were meant to take 6000-8000gp of scrolls and potions from the temple that if this could be prevented then maybe there would be room for adding the masterwork sword and dagger or a 40gp ring or a 100gp gem into the moathouse as per the original module.
Basically I could sell 1 raise dead scroll for 3000gp and it only cost me 250gp to get raised from Jaroo just doesn't add up either the price to raise dead from Jaroo or Terjon needs to go up or the scrolls need to not be something a 1st level player can't just walk off with(those are well above his paygrade).
Personally I don't have a problem getting rid of all but the one heal for Bing its not Cannon so to speak but its more in spirit with the game and it has past precedence I mean other buidings that have treasure in the module do not have it in the game.
Where I do think that 100gp gems in the gullet of a giant frog you kill at first level do have merit and fit the level attacking the moathouse and fit the original module.

Shapecharge

 

Can't you make it a script hotspot? Displaying some text "this appears empty blah blah", unless the main char has a high investigation or search? Or even make it two hotspots, one normal and one findable only by active search?

 

SCO,

Unfortunately I don't know how easy or hard it is to implement things in the program. I am thinking that if secret doors can light up using search skills, why cant tresure hidden in rubble or something also light up. Also even if I know a secret door is there from lets say a past play through then if it doesn't light up this play through I still can't go through it. I was thinking some tresure could be the same way. This can maybe put more meaning into putting ranks in search, giving that skill maybe a little more meaning.
I wish I had the knowledge to work the programs and help Gaear and the rest of the team out with things they want to change or fix, because I know it has to be time consuming and In the end its people like me who reap the benefits of their hard work.
I do like your idea as well it accomplishes the same thing and maybe thats easier to implement, or maybe if the hide and move silently skill came more into play for things like Terjons stash it would be cool also. Theives tend to have success or get caught and suffer the consequences giving those skills a little more meaning in game as well. But thats something we have to take into account when we give our suggestions to Gaear and the team is that sometimes it just might not be easy to implement even if they fully agree with you and most likely he has to prioritize and put some things on the back shelf to maybe change or fix latter.

Shapecharge

 

The vanilla dialogue options invite the player to take the scrolls in the library.

If you talk to Jakk Borton's wife, she says that the church must have a potion or scroll that will heal her brother. If you ask Terjon to heal Bing, he tells you to seek help "elsewhere".

So the role-playing rationale for taking the scrolls is there, the only question is whether the cache is too much. In the original T1 module: "Hidden in a thick book entitled LEGAL AFFAIRS IN VELUNA is a scroll of 7 clerical spells (one spell of each level) and an amulet of life protection."

 

Fair enough on the Role playing element Groo; your explamation to take the scrolls that seemed very well reasoned to me, and if you look at the spells from cure minor wounds to Raise Dead they are pretty much one from every level or close enough as per keeping faith with the module.
Guess my biggest imbalance issue with it is just the monetary value of the 2 raise dead scrolls you can get early game, the one mentioned previous and the one in the moathouse (even though I think Gaear mentioned this one will be gone).
I actually tend to find myself using the two raise dead scrolls as I play Ironman and so get good use out of them, but if I was "smart" I would sell them for appx. 3000 bucks each and this would get me 24 raise deads from Jaroo instead of just two from the scrolls.

Hmm maybe the real problem is the Cheapnest of Jaroo's reincarnate which acts as a raise dead spell instead of the monetary value of the scrolls.

 

Calmert sells unlimited Silver Light Maces (whenever he refreshes his inventory). There's also a Silver Sword of Chaos in the Minotaur's Chest at Hickory Branch.

 

Is there an ETA on 6.02?