Lets talk about Lareth

On the reactive moathouse, wouldn't Lareth and his guards travel to the Temple through the back door, and not back up through the MH? So how would they ever know the upper levels had been slaughtered? Also, the closest help they have are the gnolls in the tunnels, who are just looking for an excuse to leave, so if that area was empty upon Lareth's inspection, he would just think they abandoned their post.

 

At first I thought that it might be too overwhelming - Lareth's men pounding at you and puncturing you with arrows, while Lareth casts various debilitating spells - however playtesting has convinced me that he should enter the fray no later than 3 casualties.
He already wastes 1 round on casting Shield of Faith, and another round on just getting out of the room. By the third round most of his men are decimated.

If the Lieutenant makes it, yeah...

Actually, scout points don't work from within combat...
Though I guess the guard at the back could have his standpoint changed so he joins the other guys if you intimidate the sergeant.

Well, the script can include a test for his HPs.
Though from my testing, the player will likely have to turn to his diary for the story...

You have no idea... the engine basically flips me off

 

Sitra,

Does he talk to you and give you the option to bring him into your group when he is low on health? I find that important because our modding goals, well mine, is to add to, and never detract from, vanilla.

 

No, he just runs off

 

Had no problem there.
The script is run off every guard's san_start_combat. Most of them are in range of Lareth.

Maybe they should just wind up where Lareth does when you release him into the wild?

 

Unless you ignore the Burne's scrolls exploit, there's no sense in scripting anything. The end result will be the same. The troops die, Lareth dies and the ambush guys die. Moathouse is cleared. Go tell Terjon and move on to Nulb. At least for good aligned parties.

 

The bodies don't last long, don't you see all those bugs scurrying across the floor? Lareth just thinks they wimped out and left for greener dungeons. And there is a lot of rock cavern between them and his nice digs, I guess the lowly archers draw straws to check on the other troops, if the gnolls and bugbears don't eat him.

 

I'm actually one of those that does ignore the Burne scroll exploit. I just feel that it takes the fun out of the game. I for one would like to see Lareth do more and join his troops.

I also appreciate the concern that is being taken for Lareth's dialogue as I do occasionally play an evil party just for something different. However, (I want to get up on a soapbox here) Lareth's dialogue that leads him to joining an evil party is dumb. I say that because even if you are evil and of the same mindset, he will still lead you into an ambush. I know that it would go against what was done with vanilla but Lareth (and the evil slanted campaign) would benefit from a change here. For someone of his talents to simply lead an evil party with a lot of potential to their deaths rather than putting them to work for him, just doesn't make sense.

I realize that this would take some scripting to pull off but I just don't like the way that just because it was in vanilla means it cannot be touched. Lareth has so much more potential and the evil campaign would benefit too.

 

-didn't read the thread- But here's my take on this:

IMHO, Lareth encounter should be left as before, EXCEPT that he should join in on the combat if you choose to start it. On the other hand, the Lieutenant should have a slightly modified dialogue that allows you to resolve peacefully and talk to Lareth w/o battle - if you have the necessary speech skill and/or alignment.

The "Lareth's Diary" already takes care of that, right?

 

The diary opens up the temple, but it does not give you the chance to have Lareth in your party. If you cant get Lareth in your party, you cant save him from Burne, and you cant get him as a vendor.

I applaud Sitra's modifications but I think Lareth should stop combat and plead for his life if his health gets too low so you can get him in party if you desire. If the rest of his guards turn on their former master for betraying them, so be it. That will allow them to die and get the respawn accessible.

 

Oh, if that's the plotline in question... Frankly though I don't really see a point for a non-evil party to want Lareth anyway, but I guess you shouldn't take that option away. I guess simply not messing with his usual dialogue initiation upon "badly wounded" status would do the trick. I can only imagine how hard it'd be to actually keep him alive in that battle though. That's why I think there should be a diplomatic option of getting him as well for those who really really want him - maybe as a part of your "evil party" alternative story progression.

As for the troops - can't he just "send them off" to somewhere? Maybe a RE with remnants of Lareth's band later on in the game would be fun. Sort of like with the gnolls.

 

I did a Lawful Evil thing a couple of years a go and I redid Lareth's dlg file and he stayed in the party until the Hedrack fight. Him and Smigmal Redhand are pretty tough. They work for Lolth and don't have much use use for Iuz/Zuggtmoy. Lolth and Zuggtmoy aren't the best of friends. Lareth is there to build a power base for Lolth, but even with his talents it's not quite good enough. However, with some dlg editing, scripting and some protos, Lareth can become High Priest in the name of Lolth.